I mentioned earlier a few of the suggestions for good trading practices. One of the main reasons I wrote that is because I’ve been burned and frustrated countless times by other owners who don’t keep the same rules in mind. And while it’s one thing to say “well, that just didn’t work out”, if it happens too often then that person in your league becomes one less person you can approach for a deal. And if he does it to too many people, he becomes a pariah in the league, and essentially useless the day after the draft.
Watch carefully as a deal that seemed to work for both parties dies a horrible death, and think about what could have happened if the other party had followed the guidelines I talked about earlier.
One of my leagues uses a Yahoogroups mailing list for leaguewide announcements, specifically for keeping records of announced trades and the like. It’s meant to be a discussion list, so it defaults to replying back to the rest of the league. This works great when there’s a discussion about league rules, but when someone starts looking for or shopping players, there’s bound to be a reply meant for just that one person but sent to the entire league. Such a thing happened three weeks ago, when an owner (let’s call him “Apple”) responded to a request for pitching, making it known that Randy Johnson and Jason Jennings — two pitchers who had been on the DL this season but were back — were available.
Now, Apple has been in the league for a few years and been classified as a “future” owner; Apple loves the prospects and the great cheap contracts for young players. As a result, his teams are usually this horrible mixed bag of a few high priced name players and guys in AA. This usually gets him in trouble, and two losing seasons (70–92 and 74–88 respectively) have proven that, mainly because his teams have no depth. An injury here or there results in no backup to turn to, and in some cases he leaves the draft without a starter at multiple positions. This year’s draft was a little different in that he didn’t get in on the huge contracts (which can be difficult to trade mid-season with our cap structure) and scooped up some good value contracts when the rest of the league spent big early, but at the same time he went huge on players with zero track record in the league who weren’t guaranteed to be playing in the majors this season. Often, a rookie player or a top prospect will get bid up to $500,000 — this is the highest a contract can be that can be extended at the $100k level. The threat is that if the other person wants the player so bad, they have to bid $600,000, and that player’s second year of their contract becomes a $1.1 million deal — a bit much for an unknown quantity. Apple didn’t just hit that $600k barrier for one player — he did it for several, including a $2 million contract for catcher Miguel Montero, who had six games of major league experience, and only 36 games of AAA. Despite the high final bid, he still gave Montero a three year contract, meaning he was obligated to $2 million this season, $3 million next season, and $4 million the season after that. For perspective, I drafted Jorge Posada in this league this past draft for $3.9 million. Four time all-star .866 OPS last season Jorge Posada.
[Side note: Montero’s batting .218 with a .643 OPS, losing a platoon with Chris Snyder, who is batting .221 with a .671 OPS. Snyder was drafted for $500k.]
So in Apple, you have an owner who is addicted, seemingly, to the thrill of having the breakout guy, who likes Christmas shopping better than Christmas Day. So it didn’t surprise me that he was shopping two veterans and looking for draft picks and prospects. What did surprise me is that upon closer look, Apple had a winning record, only a few games behind the first place team in his division, and if the season had ended that day, a wild card entry into the playoffs.
And he was selling for next year.
So between the announcement to the whole league that major players (who were affordable) were available and the time ticking down before Apple realized that he could be buying instead of selling, I had to jump on the opportunity. I sent him an email:
Saw you were shopping Randy Johnson and I’d be interested in working out some kind of deal. I have my future FA picks, and I’m not sure if you have any interest in my minor league guys — I know there isn’t that much to pick from there.
Let me know — I’d be willing to talk about Jennings as well if Johnson is already gone, but I’d prefer Randy.
Granted, it kind of goes against my rule of approaching with an offer in hand, but Apple is an extremely tough read (and you’ll see why later), and I did approach with specific names and what I was offering, not just a “what would you want for him?” Note too that I was stating the difference in interest between Johnson and Jennings. While I could use Jennings, it was Johnson who was my top choice, and I wanted to make that clear. Often owners like to mix together numerous players and treat them similar despite their not having similar interest in the players in an effort to camouflage the player they truly want in case the other owner wants to run up the price. This results in a lot of unwanted substitution — when you go to turn the talk towards the player you really wanted, the other owner will end up replacing that player if they (like you) feel that the player that you really wanted is better than the other player. This results in a lot of wasted time and frustration.
Apple got back to me later that day:
I am always interested in draft picks and I can move either Johnson or Jennings. I also like Encaracion and Hamilton but I don’t think we could work out a deal for either one of them. Let me know your thoughts.
I will be in and out all day but I will keep checking my e-mail.
Edwin Encarnacion and Josh Hamilton are my two biggest bargaining chips as we go towards the trade deadline. Both have favorable contracts (Encarnacion with one more cheap year @ $600k, Hamilton with 3 more years @ $200-400k), but the catch is that both are currently starting for me, and playing pretty well. Trading either of them means having to replace them in the lineup, which would be tricky because it would mean taking on more contracts. Johnson, despite being affordable, has a salary just around my remaining cap room ($4.7 million), while Jennings sits at another three and a half. If I were to trade for either of these players, I couldn’t take on any more contracts. But, Apple himself seemed to understand this as he stated that he didn’t think we could do anything with them, so I came back with an offer that ignored Encarnacion and Hamilton but still worked for my cap number. It was probably shooting a little high, but it got us past vague offers into something solid to work from:
I’d be interested in either of them, and I’d be curious if you’d be open to dealing both. I’d be willing to offer two FA picks of your choice, and for salary reasons I’d have to offer you Brett Myers as well.
Would that be something you’d be interested in? Two FA picks of your choice and Myers for Randy Johnson and Jason Jennings?
Myers, whose demotion to the bullpen really hit my team hard, was on the DL at this point but scheduled to come back in a month. It wasn’t that I necessarily wanted to lose him, but his $5.7 million contract was definitely movable. It allowed me to take on both Johnson and Jennings, and still have a couple of million in cap room to make a few more deals later on if necessary. While I hoped that the deal would get accepted, I wasn’t optimistic. Note too that I left it open to him which FA picks he wanted; allowing the other GM to “craft his own deal” makes him feel more comfortable about it.
I wasn’t too surprised at the email I got back:
Just out of curiosity would you possibly move either of the players I mentioned?
So like five seconds after saying that he didn’t think we could do anything for those players, he asks about them. What he was really saying when he mentioned them the first time is a ploy I’ve done in the past just to throw out a player who you’d think is untouchable; you talk to someone about a backup first baseman, and in the talk you mention something like “well, I’d like to have Pujols manning first, but that’s not going to happen”, because your trading partner has Albert Pujols. You do it in the hopes of a reply like “yeah, the only way I’d trade Pujols is if you sent me [player]”, and then the mega-trade talks start.
However I didn’t do that, and it backfired on him. But that didn’t stop him from bringing it up anyway. Should he have been more straightforward? Probably, but even if he said “geez, I sure do like those guys”, it wouldn’t have mattered to me unless he gave me a reason to deal those guys off. I tried to be nice though and explain my position:
Maybe a little bit later, but not right now — both are starting for me right now and if I were to deal them I’d need an upgrade at those positions. It’d be one thing if they were on my bench, but my depth sucks.
Come the deadline, I’ll definitely keep you in mind, especially with Hamels on your roster.
The best I can do right now is:
I receive:
Randy Johnson ($4.2)
Jason Jennings ($3.4)
Adrian Beltre ($3.6)
You receive:
Edwin Encarnacion ($0.5)
Brett Myers ($5.7)
Jeff Weaver ($0.7)
June FA pick
August FA pick
He countered a few days later with this:
Just tossing this out there..
Tavarez .3 or Mathews 1.8
Beltre 3.4
R.Johnson 4.2
Jennings 3.4
FOR
Encarnacion .5
Hamilton .1
B.Myers 5.7
June FA Pick
I only have 4.5 million in cap room, so I’m still trying to figure out what would work for me — unfortunately I don’t have any other “big” contracts that I’m not using
A few questions — do you plan on DITRing Peralta, and would you consider dealing Putz in a deal, even a possible deal where I’d trade him back to you after the season is over?
- I asked about the player
- He said he wasn’t sure if he was keeping him for next year
- I said that if it were me, I wouldn’t extend him for next year
- He went to the league and told them he was available
I was thinking:
Gary Matthews (1.8)
Adrian Beltre (3.4)
Randy Johnson (4.2)
Jason Jennings (3.4)
J.J. Putz (.3)
FOR
Edwin Encarnacion (.5)
Josh Hamilton (.1)
Brett Myers (5.7)
Bob Howry (2.0)
Eric Duncan (.3)
June FA pick
I would end up receiving this:
How about this:
Mathews 1.8
Jennings 3.4
for
Hamilton .1
Howry 2.0
Your June & August FA Picks
Let me know or send a counter
Beltre
Johnson
for
Encarnacion
Myers
June FA pick
Further unraveling:
Johnson
Tavarez
Dobbs
for
Encarnacion
Hamilton
June & FA Pick
Let me know what you think. I am fielding offers from three teams trying to get the best deal possible
offered you a better deal earlier but I’m openly telling you that I’m working your deal with other people so feel lucky you’re even still in the mix.”
Those offers are pretty much the best I can do — I mentioned Peralta in a thought that I could potentially swap Durham for Peralta and play him at second base if you weren’t going to DITR him next season (which would free up another $0.3 in cap in a deal), but that would be a minimal cap fix and you could probably find better value for Peralta if you were to deal him elsewhere.
This is pretty much the best I can do, with the biggest deal being:
Gary Matthews (1.8)
Adrian Beltre (3.4)
Randy Johnson (4.2)
Jason Jennings (3.4)
J.J. Putz (.3)
FOR
Edwin Encarnacion (.5)
Josh Hamilton (.1)
Brett Myers (5.7)
Bob Howry (2.0)
Eric Duncan (.3)
June FA pick
August FA pick <– last time I offered this the August pick wasn’t included
or something smaller, such as:
Beltre
Johnson
for
Encarnacion
Myers
June FA pick
Anyway, let me know.
I should have known better:
I would want to see if anyone else in the league would be interested in him but how about this:
M.Owings and W.Tavarez
FOR
J.Hamilton and June FA PICK
I know Hamilton is better than Tavarez but I thought Owings for the June FA pick might balance it.
Let me know what you think.
That’s the Johnson and Jennings who Apple apparently refuses to speak to me about.
I went in a different direction with the pick, however, hoping to still
Anyway, let me know if you’ve thought of anything different.